God or No God
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Here's one of the big debate topics: 

 

Please keep in mind the rules for this forum, listed here: https://www.marauderclan.com/topic/8094-debate-forum-rules/

 

 

You can take any or neither stance as long as it remains pointed on this subject and doesn't derail. 

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God

 

I grew up in a christian enviroment where god and the bible was shoved down my throat. my grandma raised me and she was the one that built the church we went to. when i was 9 years old she died from leukemia at the age of 68. now my brain couldnt really fathom how god could take my grandma, who devoted her whole life to him even building one of his temples. i hated god and went on a mission to disprove him. i spent much of my earlier years studying various religions, ive read the bible, quran, torah, satanic bible, books on taoism, buddhism, shamanism, and very other spiritual texts. In all that mess i stumbled upon the math of god. which to put simply, shows a common number/ratio found all over our universe. the golden ratio phi. 7.23. the average distance between human pupils and distance between nose and chin is 7.23 cm, a spiral can be graphed on your ears and the growth ratio is 7.23. this number can be found in many animals and plants and its found in galaxy structures aswell. so if a number can be found everywhere, then there is certainly a formula that put it there, and then there is a Blueprint that put it in place. someone had to make the blueprint. Thats the simple version of the math of god.

 

Though in my voyage of disproving god, i began to do acid and shrooms just trying so hard to touch the other side. which is when i stumbled accros the south american shaman potion of ayahuasca. i did a lot of research and ordered all the plants to make the brew. what i found in that experience solved my connundrum of god and put me at peace with who i am and what we are in a nutshell. after i consumed ayahuasca, i puked a few times, whuch shamans called la purga, or the purge. i then went to a differnt place. i was swimming in a sea of red and yellow energy and i had these 2 herons on each side of me with top hats on and the one to my right looked at me and said "cha man you there" i was consumed with awe. this place i was in was just energy and i felt only what i can describe as love/joy/peace. we journeyed over to this island with 2 palm tree and i asked the question i had been waiting my whole life for. Whats the point? The heron laughed and said "to live". i said "No, whats the real point?" The heron looked deep inside me and said " To live, To experience. You dont need to worry, its going to be ok" 

 

Not too long after that, the reality i was in faded away and i woke up confused, but at the same time i felt at peace with the answers i had been given. i did some research on shaman animal guides and this is what it said 

You love to explore various activities and dimensions of Earth life. On the surface, this may seem like a form of dabbling, but more than likely you are wonderfully successful at being a traditional ‘Jack of all trades’.

This ability enables you to follow their own path. Most people will never quite understand the way you live because on the surface it seems to be unstructured without stability or security to it. It is, though, just a matter of perspective. There is security underneath it all, for it gives you the ability to do a variety of tasks. If one way does not work, then another will. This is something you seem to inherently know.

You do not seem to need a lot of people in your life, nor do you feel pressured to keep up with the material world, or to be traditional in your life roles. You stand out in your uniqueness, and you know how to snatch and take advantage of things and events that the average person would not even bother with.

to some it may look like a horoscope, but i find many deeper things here. 

 

one of the coolest things about this story is i didnt live here in orlando when i did ayahuasca. but here in orlando, we have a huge population of herons and i see them nearly everyday which gives me a personal spirit boost and it always reminds me that everything will be ok and i dont need to worry. and that is my somewhat concocted faith. i always know i will be ok through my ups and downs and it has always pulled through for me

 

so is there a god? im pretty sure there is. but god or not , it doesnt matter. i will continue to live my life knowing i will always be OK

 

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Quiete simple for me, im agnostic, I dont say that no god exists, dont say they do exist either though, there are so many "magical" things that we still cant explain, so sure there is possiblity of there being some sort of god, but as long as I dont see solid proof that a god exists, imma stay agnostic xD

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Ditto @Rebel1705. I'd like to think that with as vast as our universe is that there are just some things we will never know, and things we are never meant to know.

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@Plumbit I sincerely smiled at your post. Seems like you went through a lot, I'm glad you came to a conclusion that helps ya relax.

 

Originally I was gonna attempt to be more Theological but in the end I really just wrote a story.

Now please understand that while I have studied this I am no expert and anything I say can and should be challenged. I hope to promote critical thought and hopefully critical responses.

 

For the vast majority of humans, we fundamentally need community. We want purpose, fellowship, and to be loved. People can get those things via a number of means, however a very common one is religion. It provides all those things that, while we can technically survive without, we crave and often thrive with. People tend to self-destruct when they are alone, and lack a way to vent (like work). Religion can provide a safety net and a bond that helps. 

 

Is Religion perfect? Far from it. So why do we have it at all? Why not use other methods to satisfy the things we want/may need like community, purpose and love?

 

These days Religion doesn't often claim to be perfect. It claims to teach about something that is perfect: God.

This is the story I hold too:

 

There is a perfect God that "exists" outside of existence. He started it all by making a perfect world/universe that was self-contained and self-sustaining. 

After making all this stuff He then created Mankind in his own image.

 

Now, originally the world and people were perfect. No death, No lies, little pain, no weeds, bountiful harvest. Though God wasn't interested in making a machine that did what He told them too. He was interested in a being that had 1 majorly important ability: the ability to choose to do what He told them to do. He wanted to make something that had the option to either love itself or to love Him.

 

To have free will necessitates that ability to do the opposite of what God says hence the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Adam and Eve, the first man and woman, lived in the Garden of Eden in paradise. They had only 1 temptation, and it took one lie from a serpent to lead them to disobey their creator. God only gave them 1 rule: to not eat of the fruit of that one tree and yet that's exactly what they did.

 

In this story God reveals himself to be the ultimate good, as defined by himself. He is perfectly loving, however also perfectly just. When Adam and Eve ate the fruit He told them not too, that sin (going against God's will) forcibly separates them from God's presence. In short, God is Life, and separation from Life is Death. 

 

God gave dominion of this world, this universe, to Adam and his descendants. When Adam sinned and fell away, the whole world did. That is the explanation given for basically all the tragedies in this world. Sickness, pain, death, hatred-- all because of sin. People (including Christians) all too often blame God. "How could an all powerful God let this horrible Tragedy occur?" 

 

The answer is confusing and maddening. It's cause He loves us. 

 

We were born sinners. It means that in this state is it actually impossible to follow God's will and be in his presence. People can claim what they like by all means, however I hold to the belief that everyone has broken one or more of the ten commandments which are general reflections of a more vast truth.

Since we all have broken the law, we all deserve Death from God's standpoint. 

 

However looking back a bit to the beginning of the story, God's intent was to create a being that had the ability to choose: Love God or Love oneself. God created a world where we had that choice, now the difficult question: Should God allow us to suffer the consequence of our actions?

 

And that's the cold hard what-could-be-the truth. We have the ability to choose to deny God and we get to suffer for it. Why? Because God loves us. Beautiful and messed up.

 

The last issue is that every Human is separated from God, and every Human sins, so how do we have the ability to choose God?

In Christianity, in the Bible, the Old Testament is basically a summary of explaining that we ourselves cannot live up to God's standards and all deserve Death.

The New Testament is where the solution is revealed.

 

And then Jesus was born. Only God could live up to God. Adam failed the test when only tempted with 1 possible sin. Christ was tempted with all of them. He had a but-load of prophesies to fulfill from the Old Testament as well as lead a life unblemished. His reward at the end of his Human life was cruel. I'm not going to claim Jesus experienced the most possible pain possible, but I do claim he experienced a hell a lot of it. 

 

So whats the point of God coming down, becoming fully human, being tempted in every way, getting tortured and dying in the end.

Well Jesus didn't deserve to die. He didn't break any of the rules, never sinned. So, Christ willingly let himself die so that God's wrath would be appeased.

The cool part is He rose from the Dead 3 days later.

 

God couldn't let us live with Him because we sinned and deserve death. The Solution was for God to die to pay the ransom we owed to Him.

God's wrath condemned us to eternal separation from Himself, and God's love forged a way back into eternal fellowship with himself.

 

All you gotta do is except the fact that Jesus Christ is the same God that created the universe and us, that he died, rose again, lives on to this day and will soon return. 

People don't come back after they are dead. I mean dead-dead. Miracles don't happen, that's why they are called miracles when they do happen. It would take something literally out of this world to pull something like that off.

 

Is religion perfect? No because I'm the one trying to communicate the Truth and since I'm not perfect neither is my message. I'd like to think i'm on the right track.

So why do we have it? Because Religion can provide thing humans often crave, arguably need. From my perspective we were created with a God sized hole in our hearts.

Why not find fulfillment through other means? You can try, and some claim to have accomplished this. From my perspective, if what I believe is true, it's not about this life.

 

This life honestly sucks. It's not meant to be a "good" life. It's meant to be livable though. This is our test. God wants to know if we have the desire to love Him, and if we do, we would except that Christ paid the price for us. God isn't going to force anyone to love him, but He is going to force the consequences.

I'm not here to preach fire and brimstone but it is a part of the story. God promises existence after death, either with Him or without. It's up to you. God loves you either way.

 

That's the story. The Theology and logistics are very interesting and single details lead to hours of debate. People will claim "they believe in science" where I say so do I. I believe God created science, and has the ability to usurp it. Others will defend a different mono-theistic God, where I respond with defending the account of Jesus Christ and defend Him and the one True God. Yet others will find some other curve-stone aimed for my head.

Personally I have found that most of the time people have personal, or emotional problems with God, not rational ones. I believe in an objective Truth that we can continually strive for yet never reach. 

 

All in all my message, while complex, can be simple:

God loves you, and He created you. Christ died and suffered because He wants to save you but God is willing to let you go.

 

Thanks for reading, I look forward to reading more posts and responses.

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This is a very interesting and very sensitive topic for many people. My mom remarried when I was 5 and my adoptive father's family were all pastors. Due to that, church was mandatory as his brother lived nearby so we just HAD to go to his church weekly. This persisted for a year or two until we moved. Funny thing, we never went to church again. But then you might ask why not? Well, what all goes on at church? You sing hymns and read from the bible. Don't forget the tax-less collection plate. Churches earn so much money ours was able to build a new multimillion $$ one. ..... so I tried to search what our old church was to give an example of excess, but it's been over 20 years so I forget where it was and the name. Nevertheless, I was browsing through that small city's churches trying to find one that looked familiar. At first I saw about 20 results and thought "alright, this won't take long to look through".. until I hit the end and saw Page 1 of 7. So a small city of approximately 36,000 people has roughly 140 churches. That is a lot of places for mystical man in the cloud worship. A lot of untaxed land.

 

It's ridiculous how over the centuries that this is the norm.

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/531e76fce4b0fd769ded2299/t/532a0722e4b0521b78aedeb2/1423083425792/church.jpg

 

That is over the top unnecessary. It's even more extravagant on the inside.

https://lh3.ggpht.com/--bHnh_UzirY/WF7vWR0lVlI/AAAAAAAABJg/4zGCKTeRfJM-5ESwHzb_35M1J1z2q5D5wCLIB/s1024/photo

 

This is the norm. Our church was exactly the same. Started in a small building and suddenly exploded in funding and built a super-massive multi structure property on a multi-acre lot. Now, it could be argued that people can spend money on what they want and if they want the church to build a big building they are free to fund it, but what part of religion requires such excess in order to express your faith?

 

So now that I've ranted about the properties, which by the way, the church that is across the street from where I live now has an enormous building on a huge property (bigger than the one I just linked), time to talk about the ridiculousness that is the bible. Here are a couple of entries of it that always make me laugh that they exist and the religious population are expected to uphold : Timothy 2:11-15

 

Quote

A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

 

and Ephesians 5:22-24

Quote

 Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

 

Let's be real here.. The bible endorses slavery as well. 1 Peter 2:18

Quote

Slaves, in reverent fear of God submit yourselves to your masters, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.

 

So the bible proclaims men above women in all things, and slaves should submit to the will of their owners at all times. Sure, I might be picking specific things from the bible that makes it sound bad, but you have to remember, it's still in the bible. The holy book that christians and such are supposed to live their lives by. This is what was expected of religious households centuries ago. Since then, we have evolved past living according to the bible, yet the bible still persists and people still quote it as how you should live. I mean come on. I wish to quote this to every christian girl.

 

Deuteronomy 22:13, 22:20-21

Quote

If a man takes a wife and, after sleeping with her, dislikes her and slanders her and gives her a bad name, saying, “I married this woman, but when I approached her, I did not find proof of her virginity,” .....

 


If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the young woman’s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done an outrageous thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. You must purge the evil from among you.

 

 

You can't cherry pick what you want to live by. If you want to believe in religion, you need to take it in full otherwise you're living in a warped vision of what you think the religion should be. It's a common thing in religion to only live by what you think you should, instead of what the texts claim. If the religion is so brutal and raw that you cannot adhere to things such as stoning women for sex before marriage, or owning slaves, then perhaps it's time to move on and create something new that is more reasonable for our times instead of relying on something designed to control the masses a millennia ago.

 

And to put it quite frankly, if God exists, he is a child. A child with a magnifying glass and we are the ants. Disease, war, famine, what sort of almighty lord who loves his subjects allows such things to happen. No where ever has there ever been documented proof of a God intervening in any event. And before someone suggests 'Jesus', the entire bible was written by random people who claimed to potentially 'observe' events. There is no way to prove or even disprove most of it. "Man was made from God in his own image" ... so God is a what man is today? Greedy? Selfish? Hateful?

 

I could go into more detail about things specifically, but this is just a short write-up of my thoughts on it all. It's all bullshit. Religion was created as a means of control. Think about it logically. Everything in every religious text for all religions tells you what you should and shouldn't do. Its entire existence is control. You don't have to be religious to be a good and moral person. If you have to be told to be moral by religion because you think you wouldn't be otherwise, then there are other problems. In all matters religion though, I defer to my good friend George Carlin who says it best

 

 

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well i feel as if this may have gotten a little of topic, and seems to be a debate over religion rather than god. I agree the bible is not a perfect scripture, but is rather good at being used to cherry pick some core values to be a decent human being. hence is one of the reasons why i do love the bible. ive had many christian friends tell me im more or less a christian due to my values and understanding of faith. But i  believe god and faith are on two opposite ends of the spectrum. God to me is just an engineer for our universe, nothing more really. Faith on the other hand is an affirmitive belief of well being. 

 

so why does faith need a god? why do we need religion? i have two reasons i personally believe, one @Jrac mentioned which is a sense/need for a community. The other is simply an introduction to what faith is. the majority of folks will never understand what i went through on ayahuasca and how i attained my affirmation of well being, so some folks need to be taught in laymans terms hence we have religion and a diety that has our back that we can trust. In my opinion, both my faith and a christian faith can attain the same sense of well being over all. which is why i respect christians and nearly all other religions.

 

one thing throws me off about christians that i cant seem to just comprehend and what mainly seperates me from that religion. Jesus. i just cant fathom that whole story and such a being ever existing. i understand the story standpoint. but my tiny brain just cant buy it XD

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@Plumbit I see what you are saying, for me Religion is our attempt at understanding what God has revealed (which includes Him not revealing anything at all).

So my religion, while not perfect, for me is adequate enough to prove that God exists. 

 

Now the next big question for you Plumbit: If there is a God, do you think He (or she, or a poly-theistic) created everything and just watches it as it unfolds, or do you think He interacts with it? You mentioned Miracles but is it a case-by-case or whims?

 

My previous post is kinda long, sorry about that, but that Story I try to tell gives reason to the madness. 

Question 2 for you: Was everything created for this 1 life and when we die that's it? The whole point of Christianity (often not talked about enough) is the fact that this life isn't it. According to the Bible, if you except Jesus sacrifice for our debts to God then we can live with Him in eternity. 

Again like I mentioned before this is a choice, not forced. The question of "did Jesus really exist, die, and get resurrected" is a long debate, and a good one.

 

@Zero You bring up many good issues, and misunderstandings about the Bible. I've seen that comedy clip a number of times and it makes me laugh every time. 

Here is my response to some of the points:

Churches everywhere, always need money: You absolutely got a good point there, however I would argue that issue is due to human mistakes and greed, not directly God. They may claim that God's-special-only-to-me-revelation is that I need more of your money for God's work, but odd's are that they are lying. Now by all means, if God is real, Jesus is God, and the Bible is true (these are all major big if-s) then it would make sense to hire people to teach and guide others in the faith, and it would make sense to have places of worship and learning. If a group wanted to devote a large sum of money and make an extravagant place for God then we can't really bad-mouth it IF they are buidling it for the right reasons (which is often hard to judge). 

I do agree that even within Christianity there is a lot of divisiveness, too many churches for how few people are in each, too many greedy people, and people with the wrong mind-set. However, the way I see it that's our fault, not God's.

 

Disease, Famine, Pain, Suffering, Entropy etc.: Now this is a common issue for many people. "How could God let orphans suffer for 10 years, get raped, then finally starve to death." There is the short and simple answer, and then there is the more theological in-depth one. The short answer is given to us in Genesis. When Adam and Eve sinned (you pointed out correctly in Timothy 2 that Eve was deceived first, however in Genesis Adam was the one held responsible) they cursed themselves. This curse had major implications. It led them to getting kicked out of the Garden of Eden, separated from God until they died, the entire world started to change (weeds, disease etc.) and every child they birthed was given the same curse. 

The original World God created was perfect, no disease. We essentially invented disease and brought it upon ourselves. God intended for us to always live with Him in the Garden and we chose to disobey Him getting Kicked out.

The long story (but hopefully not complicated) I shared above explains some of that, and God's solution to us returning to Him if we want to.

 

This story offers an explanation to why we were created, why the world is so horrid and messed up, and a solution. But as I've said more then once, it's up to us if we except the solution.

If you'd like I can also talk about the slavery and the woman quotes, they are often targeted and due seem to malign the Bible. I however disagree when you consider the context.

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The whole "We created disease" thing causes me to be unable to believe the whole religion thing. Yes, according to religious lore, we brought the calamities of the current day upon ourselves by eating from the forbidden tree. First off, just think about that in your head. God wanted us to live forever with him, but created a means to rid himself of humans that he KNEW would be used. All-powerful, all-knowing, creator of all things including humans, how could he not see it? He did create the being that misled Eve to eating the fruit which means he knew it would take advantage of her knowing she would do it. This whole thing is a joke. The garden of eden was a paradise he intended to not last. How can I believe such a being exists that would intentionally invent our own demise then blame us for it?

 

If you claim he did not know any of the things I listed above, then he's not all-powerful and all-knowing. That refutes his absolute authority in all things and means he cannot be the creator. At the very, VERY least, he'd be a lesser deity among greater ones. In which case, our worship does not belong to him and he is not the source of original creation. Nevertheless, sadly, none of religion can ever be proven. I am a very logical person. Show me a miracle happening before my eyes and I will believe it to be true. Claim God spoke to you in a dream, and have fun with your delusions. If God wanted himself to be known he'd make it so. 'Why should he have to constantly prove his existence?'. He wouldn't. He'd only have to do it every so often in a blatantly obvious manner that is irrefutable. He has yet to do that. Jesus does not count, because it was 2000 years ago and no proof of his miracles or divine existence exists. Stories passed down over generations are not facts. Scientology is a perfect example of what happens to stories over time. They were literally science fiction stories that over decades gathered a following and now has turned into a 'religion'. In a few thousand years, it may be one of the prime religions of the world like Christianity is now. Flying Spaghetti Monster has just as much claim to that over time as well. It's all made up make-believe. Throw time into the mix and the inability to prove whether it existed or not long ago is great material for a divine being of infinite power.

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@Jrac never said anything about miracles, just that my faith has delivered on what i believe, Being OK, my dots just always connect for me. i dont believe god meddles with our reality. I think if he did it would be contradictory like @Zero kinda said. If god meddled, he would neither be all powerful or all knowing.

 

and on the afterlife, truly couldnt tell ya. i mean we have energy within us and energy cannot be destroyed so its gta go somewhere. but i dont think about the afterlife, cause then that distracts you from the experience here and now. but i have a neat video that makes you wonder. 

 

 

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I'm reserving a spot here for tomorrow for I do not want to type a long text on a phone

 

EDIT: Nevermind, too lazy to write anything

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For me, it's simple: do I believe in God? No.  Can I prove that it doesn't exist?  No.  Will I waste my time following a practice that honors and binds me to said practice that, in my opinion, is just another form of human-on-human mind control and brainwash?  Nah, I'll pass.

 

I don't go around telling people that God doesn't exist, because I really don't have to.  You can't prove to me that it does, and I feel like the burden of proof lies as much in the "it does" than the "it doesn't" - but still equally, no one "knows".

 

I'll follow science and empirical evidence.  It works for me, but to each their own!!

 

Edit: removed references from "he" to "it", I am not so presumptuous to assume God has a gender, much less that he's certainly a male.

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Religion is a touchy subject, and will always be. 

People are simple, they need to feel or see things to believe in those things. My personal opinion is that religion is another excuse for not being explain the creation of mankind or being too ignorant to do so, religion has become a gateway of all bad things now, it is not worshipping your deity anymore but it rather became quite a business route where Christians take money from their own people in order to sustain themselves in the modern world but if you take for example old Christianity.. folk-wise that is, they never asked for money only that you follow a couple of rules set by them (But evidently, they tell you it's God). Evil is also a factor that helps them mask any mistakes they made or don't want to surface this is the pure reason religion has ''Evil'' in it. Be it Satan or whichever deity.

 

Let's not only focus on Christianity, let's focus on Islam for a moment as well. A lot of islamists will tell you that their religion is the Religion of Peace but it's quite different, religious extremism brings out the bad in people; Islam extremism provides their believers with a quote from Qur'an:

 Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help." or Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them".

 

Ultimately God is your imagination and what you cling onto because you probably have nothing else to. Once you die your brain shuts down and so do your ideas, memories, imagination, etc. It's a Game Over screen and only those who die get to know if there is one or isn't.

 

BUT HEY THAT'S JUST MY PERSONAL OPINION, NO HATE MATE.

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I have some questions. .. if God really was all powerful & all knowing... why did he create an angel that could ever question his/her position in the first place? Cast from heaven? Why? God created it... Everyone seems to point the finger @ Adam & Eve... without the "temptation" none of this would've transpired... & if God was "all knowing" he/she would've known the fate of man/woman long before these events ever transpired... & therefore they are by his/her own design... flawed (which proves either that god made a mistake, or that he created us to fail) which can only point at a selfish, petty God... why create for the sole purpose of being praised & worshiped? Why does he/she need all this praise? We die... if we believe, we get to go to heaven where we get to live for eternity praising god? Why? Why allow people to suffer "if" you were all loving, why give people a choice? Lucifer said that not one person would believe in the end... why would an "all powerful" God be questioned or "tested" in the first place? Who does he need to prove this to? & why? And people say it was to give mankind a choice... there is no choice, it's believe or die... why give them an option at all?

 

     Ragnar said it best... "I don't believe in the gods existence. Man is the master of his own fate, not the gods. The gods are mans creation to give answers that they are too afraid to give themselves".

 

I say "show me" just like ghosts & big foot... show me unquestionable proof... a blurry photo or a testimony from a "healed" person prove nothing.

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"I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out there isn't, than live as if there isn't and to die to find out that there is." - Albert Camus

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On 5/29/2017 at 7:14 PM, Whisp said:

"I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out there isn't, than live as if there isn't and to die to find out that there is." - Albert Camus

While that's great and all, wouldn't you want to live your life how you feel you should, rather than how other people feel you should? After all, if you're moral, fair, and just, if there is a God in the end, he will accept you even if you did not worship him because you lived your life the way he would have wanted you to. What sort of divine being demands worship in order for you to participate in an afterlife?

herostyle and Mudvayne like this

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7 hours ago, Zero said:

While that's great and all, wouldn't you want to live your life how you feel you should, rather than how other people feel you should? After all, if you're moral, fair, and just, if there is a God in the end, he will accept you even if you did not worship him because you lived your life the way he would have wanted you to. What sort of divine being demands worship in order for you to participate in an afterlife?

Agree completely.

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Nevermind.
 

Edited by herostyle
Regret.

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Hello!
A few things I would like to add in this topic. I grew up an orthodox christian, because it's my country's official religion. As I grew up and became a teenager, I decided that all that we were taught were not real, just some stories to keep us in line and control us. There surely can't be a magical flying man in the sky who knows everything and is everywhere, right? So I disapproved of the existence of God for many years...

When I was 18 years old, still not believing in God, I was going through a rough period in my school, as well as personal life and family. My parents were about to get a divorce, my grades were falling, all of my friends couldn't stand my complaining and misery so I was pretty much left alone. Depression started kicking in and I was having really bad nightmares... I even saw Satan hunting me down and laughing a lot of times. I was so scared... So I thought, "ok what is the one thing to keep satan away? God". And so I started praying (and by praying I mean closing my eyes and begging for things to fix). The dreams started going away, and inside me I felt something, a calmness, I don't know how to explain it , a soothing feeling like everything is going to be alright. I knew this feeling was something I wanted to believe in, in my head that's God's proof of existence.

So I found God. I believe in him but only seldom have I stepped into a church. For me, at least, God and religion are 2 different things. God is everything, and from what I read in some replies above, I want to add, that the bible and other religious scriptures are makings of man.
I had a pretty nice conversation with my friend's dad who is a priest, and he said "Even I question his existence some times. That's normal. That's what humans do and that's why we advance. We need the proof of his existence, and I got mine. And you got yours. Other people got theirs. You decided to turn to god as your last resort and you found peace within you. Maybe it's a placebo effect. We don't know. Placebo or not, for me God is real, and when I doubt his existence I look within me."

 

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I hope there is a god. dont believe he has to do anything with religion though. I believe the chruche is evil but religion is a nobel and helpfull thing in difficult times even if its just placebo.

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I have rather simple and logical view on God.

Since God is transcedent, there is no point in trying to find proof of existence or non-existence. Instead, it only falls to do you benefit from existence of God or not?
For me, God represents protection and ideal world, "at the cost" of being decent human being, which is basically what I want to be.

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